IT'S a Tech Podcast
The “IT’S a Tech Podcast” is an engaging conversation about the game-changing technology solutions being advanced by the state’s Office of Information Technology Services. Learn how we make IT happen for 53 state agencies and 20 million New Yorkers, as well as help government leaders deliver for New York.
IT'S a Tech Podcast
Episode 4: Operational Excellence
At ITS, empowering leaders from all sectors of the organization is crucial to our agency’s success. Our workforce is made up of diverse professionals with different levels of experience who bring a variety of backgrounds to tackling challenges, which fosters an environment beneficial to unique and creative results.
Today, Executive Deputy Chief Information Officer Jennifer Lorenz joins us for a wide-ranging discussion about the best way to deliver IT solutions, get things done for our client agencies and the people of New York, and ultimately achieve operational excellence.
Thank you for listening to the IT’S a Tech Podcast. For more information about ITS, visit our website at its.ny.gov. Follow us on X, LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.
0:01
You're listening to the It's a Tech podcast, an engaging conversation about game changing technology solutions being advanced by the state's Office of Information Technology Services.
0:11
Learn how we make IT happen for 53 state agencies and 20 million New Yorkers while helping government leaders deliver for New York.
0:22
Welcome to the It's a Tech podcast where we not only talk about the nuts and bolts or maybe the cables and connectors of technology, but also the beliefs and attitudes that help IT teams accomplish goals and create solutions at ITS.
0:36
Empowering leaders from all sectors of the organization is crucial to our agency's success.
0:41
Our workforce is made up of diverse professionals with different levels of experience who bring a variety of backgrounds to tackling challenges, which fosters an environment beneficial to unique and creative results.
0:54
Today, Executive Deputy Chief Information Officer Jennifer Lorenz joins us for a wide-ranging discussion about the best way to deliver IT solutions, get things done for our client agencies and the people of New York, and ultimately achieve operational excellence.
1:11
Jenn, welcome and thank you so much for joining us.
1:14
Thank you for having me. Of course!
1:16
So your resume certainly speaks for itself.
1:19
You have more than 20 years of experience as a leader and operational manager of information technology systems, and you've been with the agency in a number of different roles since ITS was created.
1:30
Can you tell us more about your journey here at ITS?
1:32
Sure.
1:33
I actually began as an older intern, not nearly 30, but close enough.
1:40
And I was able to move through various teams thanks to all the support, you know, within this agency, you know, it is great that we have the civil service program where you can test and, you know, get a new position.
1:52
So, I was able to join various teams throughout my career and really help either expand what we were doing, roll out programs or, you know, help lead different organizations as we've changed the organization, right?
2:06
So we've changed pretty much since I began.
2:08
I was at OFT, then I was part of ITS as it consolidated data centers.
2:13
We had to stand up, you know, the ServiceNow tool, you know, which we know as ITSM, we stood up the service delivery management program for incident knowledge change management.
2:24
So really how do we operationalize all of that consolidation on top of the various programs?
2:30
NY.gov ID is where I began as an intern.
2:33
So I think when I started we had 10,000 citizens.
2:36
Now it's 20 million.
2:38
So that's another thing that just over time slowly grew.
2:41
You know, it was something we just delivered.
2:43
It was a free service.
2:45
It was easy for users to to adopt.
2:48
It was easy for the agencies to consume because it was free during a time that we didn't have a lot of money.
2:53
So I've been able to really see a lot of not only how we operate internally, but how we support the customers and always have been able through the support of this agency to take advantage of new opportunities.
3:05
So for me, it's been, you know, a great time.
3:08
Fantastic.
3:09
So, speaking of ITS and leadership and transitions, recently you delivered the opening remarks at the New York IT Leadership Forum, and you said that an individual's role in an organization doesn't necessarily define them as a leader.
3:24
Can you unpack that for us?
3:26
Oh, sure.
3:26
So I, you know, really when it comes to leadership, I mean, I'd have to say from my experience, I've always been in a leadership role, whether it's in my own family or when I joined the military, I was one of the lowest ranking individuals, but tended to always be the one that the people on my team would go to, to advocate for something, to help get something done.
3:47
We need funding for this.
3:49
We need to, you know, get support for this.
3:50
We just need some time off, right?
3:52
I'm the one that people typically, you know, seek out.
3:55
And what I've learned over the years is leaders have followers, you know, people will come to you because they believe that you one you respect them and they'll give you that respect in return, but they'll come to you because they're they think you're going to help problem solve with them.
4:11
Right.
4:11
So it's different than being the boss.
4:14
I mean, as I moved up and had more rank or I, you know, join this team and I've moved up, it's less about the title.
4:21
Sure, I could run around and say my title is whatever, you must listen to me.
4:25
But that doesn't mean you'll actually get support or people will give it their all in that effort.
4:29
4:30
And early in my career, I actually challenged myself not to drop names.
4:34
So I really felt that if I had to say so-and-so told me to do this and that's why I'm coming to you, I felt that I wouldn't get buy-in.
4:43
So I really challenged myself personally to rarely ever have to drop a name.
4:48
Like if I've said we have to do this because someone said so, it's usually a crisis, like something bad is happening.
4:54
Other than that, it was like my own personal challenge to try and invoke followers and get to the bottom of the problem without dropping names or titles.
5:03
It the title is just the role that you're in has nothing to do with how you operate.
5:08
And it doesn't give you the respect and it doesn't give you the quote unquote "power".
5:12
It gives you the ability to assign the tasks and check the work and yes, manage your staff, but it's not going to get you that extra oomph that you're trying to gain from individuals.
5:21
Absolutely.
5:22
Hierarchy and leadership two separate concepts. Completely separate. Leadership is not based on rank.
5:28
So in a one-year period from October 2023 to October 2024, ITS hired more than 800 new employees.
5:37
What is your message to those individuals who are newer to ITS, a quarter of which are professionals under the age of 25?
5:44
They have fewer years of experience.
5:46
How should they go about their day-to-day work and how do they stand out?
5:51
Oh, that's a great question.
5:52
I think it's different types of challenges today.
5:55
I mean, one, I can't say I truly understand what it's like to be a new employee in the world today.
6:00
Completely different world.
6:02
Yeah, yeah.
6:03
I have had the benefit, as many others who've been here, of having relationships.
6:07
So I think for the newer individuals, it may take more action on their part to become engaged, to make themselves known, you know, step up a little more, say how do I get involved?
6:21
How do I, you know, connect with other teams?
6:24
I think, you know, those of us who've been doing this for a long time, we're kind of stuck in our rut.
6:29
I mean, I'll speak for myself.
6:31
I know who to call, when to call.
6:32
I know how processes work.
6:33
A lot of it goes unspoken after all of these years.
6:37
So I think we miss a lot of that in teaching our new folks.
6:41
It's a lot that maybe you don't necessarily write down.
6:44
And so I can see a struggle where the new folks are trying to figure out how to get engaged, right?
6:50
And then to what extent is appropriate to get engaged, right?
6:53
So back to like having a boss or being a leader, how do you know your your roles and what you can, you know, push where it's appropriate, right?
7:01
I mean, you don't want to be insubordinate, right?
7:04
But you do have the ability to question perhaps something that we're still doing that doesn't make sense.
7:09
You know, why are we still printing, you know, X many things or why are we still requiring an ink signature when I don't know the last person who's actually checked an ink signature to another ink signature anywhere, Right, right.
7:23
So those are appropriate questions.
7:24
But, but for someone new to figure out where and how to get engaged to have those conversations, it can be difficult.
7:31
We have so much going on and how do you kind of stop the operational work to then focus on, you know, the new, the new folks and helping them get on board?
7:40
So I think if they could be more vocal in a actionable way, you know. "Hey, I want to learn about this" or "Hey, I'm curious about this" and then talk to your peers and your colleagues.
7:51
So you know, 1. going up the chain, Sure.
7:55
Any direction, any new work you take on anytime off anything that's is like affects your operational day, all of that comes from your supervisor trainings you want to take.
8:04
That's all from your supervisor.
8:05
Absolutely.
8:06
But if it's how do I get engaged in this new program that I hear we're doing, How do I, you know, who are my peers?
8:14
I don't know who my peers are.
8:15
You know, there's 5000 staff here.
8:17
They work across the state of New York, right?
8:19
So if you have to ask those questions, not only to your supervisor, but we have the comms team who's just a general, thank goodness, you know, they'll help route things.
8:31
If you're just curious, like how do I get involved?
8:33
What are the other programs we have going on?
8:35
What initiatives are going on that we can be a part of?
8:38
So I would say to represent themselves more, especially where, you know, we're telecommuting and make themselves known and stay curious.
8:46
The other thing is being flexible.
8:49
You know, in IT, we are the agency that changes the other agencies.
8:55
So we're constantly looked upon as leaders in the technical space, but that drives the organizational change.
9:02
And so for us to be stuck in a rut is burdensome almost, right?
9:08
Because we want to be the ones that the agencies come to, that other people see as leaders, that they're like, oh, OK, they did the change at ITS.
9:17
We can do it here.
9:18
It's going to be fine.
9:19
You know, I remember we consolidated e-mail, there was all this panic and concern.
9:22
And I mean, now we just take it as a everyday thing, right?
9:25
Emails just up and running and we don't even think about it.
9:28
Well, OK, sometimes we have some outages, but that's besides the point.
9:33
So, but it's not the same as it was before where everything was on our heads, right?
9:37
So we have to be flexible.
9:39
We have to adapt.
9:40
We have to stay curious because for the state, we are the agency that leads the technical change and the only way you can get in that game is to be curious and constantly be trying to be at the forefront of where we're going so you can help change the old to the new.
9:58
You'll hear a lot about "Train the Trainer."
10:01
You know, things like AI, right?
10:03
Is that something we should be scared of, right?
10:06
I don't personally believe so.
10:07
It's just another tool.
10:08
That's how I see it.
10:09
We have many tools.
10:11
Do you need a hammer?
10:11
Do you need a chainsaw?
10:12
Do you need a microwave?
10:13
Do you still need the chef?
10:14
Like what are you trying to do?
10:15
Right?
10:15
What?
10:16
What do you want to get done?
10:17
But imagine a world where if we were scared, IT, if we came across as scared, everybody else would be scared, right?
10:24
So for my new folks and really anyone who's been a part of ITS, I think staying curious, showing the confidence that yes, things will change.
10:32
I mean, we've changed as an agency.
10:33
We're still here, right?
10:35
Still here. Always being able to adapt and overcome and get in the game.
10:40
I would say work is more fun when you're in the game versus when you're watching it happen.
10:44
So that would be my advice is put a little more on those folks to to help them feel confident in asking for what they need, right?
10:54
I need more information because so much is so known to us.
10:59
We have this language. We do a lot of things that go unspoken. So many acronyms.
11:04
So how does someone navigate that?
11:06
And they're not, they're not.
11:07
Maybe they're not in the office all the time with the same team.
11:09
Even if they're in the office, the whole team isn't together.
11:12
They're not hearing like the water cooler conversations we used to have.
11:14
So I think they have to represent themselves more and say what they need in a proactive type of way so that they're they feel empowered and they're getting the information they need back.
11:27
My suggestion.
11:28
That's fair.
11:29
I think stay curious is just good advice for life, really.
11:32
If we're not curious, what are we even doing?
11:34
Thank you.
11:35
So operational excellence is defined as, and I quote, the systematic implementation of principles and tools designed to enhance organizational performance and create a culture focused on continuous improvement, which just touches upon what you just said.
11:50
In other words, setting up an organization for success.
11:53
How do you measure success and how will any organization know when they've achieved operational excellence?
12:00
Wow, that was a lot.
12:01
Yeah, good description.
12:04
Again.
12:05
I mean, I do think for those of you who once knew Jim Alderdice, he would say, "You have to know it to measure it."
12:11
So that is, that's kind of been a struggle for us for a long time.
12:15
I mean, one, we've changed a lot, but two, what are our goals?
12:19
How do we define operational excellence?
12:21
And before it was just keep the systems up and running, right?
12:26
So we're doing all this transition, we're consolidating data centers, we're moving a lot of applications.
12:30
Let's just ensure everything's up and running.
12:34
So that was a measure in itself.
12:36
How much, you know, what's your up time?
12:38
And now we're trying to move into a new world where we're continually monitoring those services and proactively finding fault.
12:48
How do we find fault faster and ensure that not only is the system up and running, but whoever the user is, whether that's the business individual or the citizen, that they're having a good experience?
13:00
So really, I think we're in the early stages of helping to better define the measures to actually show that we are driving operational excellence.
13:10
I mean, you'll hear our CIO mention getting to 0 incidents.
13:13
And that's not a matter of just closing all the incidents to close the incidents.
13:17
That's a matter of figuring out fundamentally what is happening at the root of the issue, solving it entirely.
13:27
So that doesn't, that doesn't happen again.
13:29
So your citizen or your business person is having a 100% good experience every time.
13:36
So we build that trust and we build this constant state of improvement because we're always looking proactively looking to find the fault faster and solving that upfront.
13:47
So I think you'll see the measures start to get even better.
13:52
And then of course, we will also continue to use, you know, AI both from a predictive, you know, how many times has that issue occurred?
14:00
How can I get in front of it?
14:02
Can I help it solve itself before the user ever sees it?
14:06
So you'll see a lot of AI continue to grow in the improvement of technology.
14:11
And then also informing citizens or the business user of if they are experiencing something you know, either solving it for them or helping them to solve it.
14:21
Verify who you are and then we can help you solve it or whatever that may look like.
14:25
So you'll see more use of automation and predictive analytics in solving a lot of the issues we have.
14:34
So we are still striving for operational excellence and that's how we're using the tools.
14:39
On top of that, we need all of ITS to help think about what's that critical thinking, What measures make the most sense.
14:46
Every application is different.
14:47
Who are the users?
14:49
How is the information being secured?
14:51
You know, we have this world where security measures could impact your ability to operate, right?
14:56
There might be a situation where security is like, "Hey, going back to paper makes the most sense" and you're like, "That's not best for the user," right?
15:02
So you have to really solve that from an operational excellence perspective.
15:06
What is the best use case for that citizen?
15:09
So that's where we're headed.
15:10
It's a great time to be a part of ITS, I think, if you are interested in data, you're interested in anything with predictive, you know, we focus a lot on the citizens, but we have a big to-do inside of ITS to help improve how we operate and really drive towards that excellence.
15:27
Absolutely.
15:28
That connects back to our previous episode where we talked about human-centered design and really focusing on the needs of the user and how the user is accessing these digital spaces.
15:38
So I think that definitely plays into operational excellence in that whole mindset.
15:43
Agreed.
15:44
That's a good point.
15:46
Well, speaking of, can you give us a recent example of operational excellence in action?
15:52
Yes. We, I mean so many programs, so many applications.
15:57
I would give a shout out to our tax team led by Richard Cletus.
16:04
They recently rolled out a program called Direct File, and, you know, one of the ways they monitor that was based on the transactions and the transaction time.
16:15
So, you know, once it went live, how many transactions were coming in, what was the time to process?
16:20
And they can they have measures that can truly show life before and life after that.
16:25
That implementation.
16:26
Data-driven.
16:27
Yeah, it was all data-driven.
16:28
Obviously we needed the skilled staff to roll it out, right, to actually be the architects of it, implement it, negotiate, you know, how are we going to get from here to there?
16:39
So all of that critical thinking around what does today look like, how do I get to the future?
16:44
That was all our organization under Richard's team with tax department right working through all those hurdles, you know, seven rings of whatever we had to get blessed before that occurred.
16:56
So they did all of that work upfront, but they can clearly show measures of a before and an after which is huge and there it was a still is a very successful program.
17:04
It's wonderful.
17:05
And boy, tax is just huge undertaking, especially this time of year.
17:10
You know, tax day was literally only a month ago and you know. And they're still working hard.
17:15
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure.
17:18
So, as we see in the news, conference presentations, you mentioned earlier, general industry chatter: AI is on everyone's mind.
17:27
How do you see AI changing the way we work and how does it fit into the model of operational excellence, which I believe you touched on a little bit, but let's go a little bit deeper.
17:34
Sure.
17:35
Yeah. As I stated, I personally, you know, see AI as another tool first.
17:40
It's not necessarily new to those of us who've been in, you know, the tech world, right, especially on the machine learning automation front or predictive analytics, right?
17:51
So those tools have been around for a long time.
17:53
They're only getting better.
17:55
So again, I think there's a time and a place for every tool.
17:59
I think you'll see faster adoption of AI-like tools when it comes to improving the technology.
18:06
So, one, if there's a truly value in code assist, right?
18:12
So this is a tool that can either help identify, you know, the business rules that already exist, you know, in a program or help develop the code in a faster way so that you don't have to hunt and peck, or try to remember, you know, the last time you wrote a particular, you know, aspect of code, right?
18:30
So, these tools, again, a tool Google and Microsoft both say they use code assist for about 30% of their code.
18:37
So if they can do it, we can clearly do it.
18:39
But again, that's all around improving the product that's being delivered.
18:43
And so I think you'll see faster adoption for something in that regard.
18:48
I think when it comes to issuing benefits, you know, really, we really have to take a look at what is the use case there. To what extent should automation be used?
19:00
We know we always need a human in the loop.
19:01
So you see us coming out with these policies around what is the best way?
19:06
What are the guardrails that we need to put in place?
19:08
What are the things we need to think about from a security perspective?
19:11
And not just where does the data live now, but they're also questioning things like bias and ethics, right?
19:18
So how do we ensure as an agency that oversees technology for the state that those things are in place?
19:25
So again, a lot of it's tied to the technology itself and using the right tool that helps you find any anomalies or perhaps can call out the bias and ethics concerns, right?
19:36
So again, how do we get to the tools that make the most sense, but then always keeping the human in the loop, especially where there's decisions that impact other humans right in in the equation.
19:47
So we do see a world where AI, like I mentioned, will help get us to better operations and better service delivery overall, But again, cautious about how we approach it.
20:00
When do we use which tool for which scenario?
20:03
It still has to be at the forefront of this conversation. Of course.
20:06
And as with any tool, so responsible and applicable use, right?
20:11
If I need a hammer, but I get a chainsaw, right?
20:16
Am I actually accomplishing the mission? Exactly. Exactly.
20:21
As an employee and a leader here at ITS, what are some of the skills you've learned that could serve others in their jobs, in leadership positions, in life?
20:31
Oh, thank you.
20:32
I think obviously communication is huge, but not just one-sided communication.
20:37
I think listening is a big part of communication and listening from the perspective of not judging what's being said, but trying to put yourself in that individual's shoes and understand why they're saying what they're saying.
20:53
Especially where you are trying to be a leader, you are trying to get something moved forward.
20:58
Even you're like trying to make a recommendation on, you know, hey, maybe we should, you know, get together as a team after work.
21:04
You're just advocating for something.
21:06
It could be something small that you want to do.
21:09
If you can listen to everyone's perspective about what works for them, what doesn't work for them, you'll have a better understanding of what those hurdles are and then you can navigate them.
21:18
OK, Tuesday doesn't work because, you know, Mary is at sports, you know, all night and it's a super stressful night.
21:24
So, I won't do, I won't plan Tuesdays, right?
21:26
But I'll, what does work?
21:28
So then the question can be what is possible versus all of the reasons that aren't, you know, possible.
21:34
And then I and I would also say respect.
21:35
So we see a lot of those of us especially who've worked a long time here, It's like family, right?
21:44
I mean, I've worked with some of these people my whole career here.
21:47
So who cares what my rank is or my title is?
21:51
Who cares?
21:51
No one cares.
21:52
I, I came up with everybody.
21:54
We're, you know, humans.
21:56
We're just all humans, right?
21:57
And so, again, not the title, but just basic respect.
22:02
I give respect to anyone who has to go make the case to the principals.
22:07
So we have a great idea.
22:09
We're all on board.
22:09
Well, you everyone calls so and so the point, you know, Joe is the point person.
22:13
Joe has to go make the case, right?
22:16
So we send we prepare him, we send him off, right?
22:18
And we're like really hope whatever the outcome is, right, Joe, please go make this thing happen.
22:22
Well, maybe Joe doesn't get over the wall or we shouldn't be, we shouldn't beat that individual up, right?
22:27
We should figure out what happened.
22:28
What do we all need to do better to help, you know, get said thing over the wall.
22:32
So I think a lot of that's respect I also would give if I declared, sorry to all the Joes, but if I declared, you know, Joe, he's the point, right?
22:42
I always say the person who's taking the hit, they get 2 votes.
22:45
So it's nice for all of us to sit in the room and we all kvetch.
22:49
You know, you're never going to get that or you're not going to get that, or it's been blues for 1000 years, right?
22:55
Well, when Joe is now taking the ball and he's trying to go make the play, he gets 2 votes.
23:01
So if he's like, guys, I can't run that, I'm not, that's not going to be the successful way for me because he knows himself, right?
23:08
So we have to respect whatever that person needs to be successful as well versus sit in the background and just command what we think the best approach would be.
23:19
Because the point is getting whatever the goal is over the, you know, you're just trying to get there.
23:23
That's the point.
23:24
Not beating up Joe or disrespecting whoever the point person is, right?
23:29
So I always give the person who has to go make the case they get 2 votes no matter what.
23:34
I don't care what title is. I don't care what the role is.
23:37
But in my mind, whenever we're doing these brainstorming conversations, that person always gets 2 votes.
23:44
And then the people who've been here a long time should be respected as well as the new people.
23:49
Like, there should just be respect, right?
23:51
Respect for the new people coming in.
23:53
I remember I call myself an older intern, right?
23:56
I was one of the youngest people here.
23:58
So I remember, you know, having, I have energy, in case you haven't met me, here I am 20 years later, I still wake up with this amount of energy.
24:06
And so I just remember, you know, being new again and, you know, having energy or whatever you want to qualify it as and kind of being treated as like, oh, isn't she cute?
24:19
She's like, you know, bring in a new idea here.
24:22
How are we going to get that over the wall, right?
24:24
So it's a lot to take it, you know, to take in because there's just so much time that people have spent trying to get things done.
24:34
And it's very hard here.
24:36
It's not easy.
24:37
And my words that I'm saying to you is not they're not easy, right?
24:40
But if you can just listen to the other.
24:42
So then when I would when I would say to folks, well, why can't we get it done right?
24:46
Because I'm ignorant.
24:47
It's true.
24:47
I showed up here.
24:48
I'm like, I have this came from the outside.
24:51
I look at the world different.
24:52
I don't, I don't know what's been done.
24:54
What hasn't been done.
24:55
It's true.
24:56
Absolutely.
24:56
I don't know.
24:57
So tell me.
24:58
Right.
24:58
So then when I would listen, then I could hear, oh, OK, there's like 7 rings of fire and it's like, do you want to fight the dragon today or not?
25:06
You know, it's like, how do you navigate those seven rings of fire?
25:10
Which ones are important?
25:11
Which ones are going to help me get to where I need to go?
25:13
So if you can make the conversation happen in a respectful way, I wasn't insulted, you know, I was, it was just the way people were like we've done this before, we've done it for 1000 years.
25:24
But OK, if you want to go try, you know, we're going to let you.
25:27
And it was fine.
25:29
You came curious.
25:30
Yeah.
25:30
And, and a lot of people, they did support me.
25:33
You know, that's how I am, where I am today.
25:35
I did get a lot of support, but it was through listening and it's through respect.
25:39
And I respect the people who've been here long before me.
25:41
There's a reason they believe what they believe.
25:43
It happened, whatever happened in there.
25:45
You know, some of these people have built, in my opinion, the city twice, if not three and four times.
25:50
So you want to talk data center?
25:52
We've got amazing people here who can tell you all the ways it used to be at the agency than what it was when we consolidate it.
25:59
And now as we move to the cloud, right?
26:01
So we should be respectful of everyone's experience and bring that into the conversation.
26:07
Versus cut people out. Right.
26:09
We do this thing and you know, we will say he's not going to bring anything of value.
26:13
He's just a curmudgeon.
26:14
Well, what is he what what is he trying to express?
26:18
He's kind of (he or she, sorry) is expressing there's these hurdles.
26:24
And until you get over those hurdles, you're going to be in the same position I've been in for the last 25 years.
26:28
So I'm telling, I'm trying to save you some time.
26:30
Let's focus on what needs to get done.
26:33
And so if you can listen, you will learn what needs to be navigated and you will get to a solution for those things, especially if you can leverage being new, right?
26:42
You're like, I don't know, I'm going to go ask the question again.
26:45
You have the energy to go ask that question again because you're new.
26:48
You don't know that.
26:48
You don't know why we're still using paper.
26:50
Why are we still using paper, right?
26:52
So that's the type of conversation you can have.
26:55
But I think it only comes with respect.
26:57
I think it comes with leaving titles at the door.
27:01
I think it comes with respecting people's experiences and listening.
27:06
And like I said, the person who's going to present, they get, they get 2 votes because at the end of the day, it's on them to get it over the wall.
27:14
And so they have to do it in the way that works for them.
27:17
They cannot.
27:18
No one else can be what you want them to be.
27:21
So for you to expect that someone else is going to make the play the way you would make the play, then you got to get in and make the play right.
27:28
Otherwise support the person who's making the play.
27:30
Exactly.
27:31
And we, we always say here at ITS one of our biggest strengths is our diversity in terms of experience, in terms of perspective.
27:39
That's how you get fresh ideas.
27:41
So if you listen to people from wherever they're coming from, you're going to get a new idea.
27:48
Correct.
27:48
There it is.
27:49
Operational excellence 101.
27:52
So, Jenn, thank you again so much for talking with us today.
27:55
Before you go, we have one final question that we ask all our guests.
27:59
And by we, I mean me.
28:00
What are you most looking forward to this year?
28:03
And it doesn't have to be related to your professional life.
28:05
It can be whatever you want it to be.
28:07
I am looking forward to travel.
28:09
It is something that I've just not been able to make the time to do.
28:14
So I'm very excited about what lays ahead.
28:17
I love new adventures for those, you know, that don't know me, I, you know, the harder it is, the more different it is the I love an adventure.
28:27
So I am really hoping I can make some time to, to do that in my in the coming year.
28:32
I hope so too.
28:33
Absolutely.
28:34
Well, Jenn, thank you again.
28:35
This was very engaging.
28:37
I think everybody's going to get a lot out of this discussion and maybe approach their professional lives with a little bit of a inspiration.
28:44
So thank you again.
28:45
Well, I hope so.
28:46
And apologies to all the Joes out there.
28:48
Joe, you're carrying that ball.
28:50
Thank you for that.
28:52
Thanks, everybody.
28:54
Thank you for listening to It's a Tech Podcast.
28:57
For more information about ITS, visit our website at its.ny.gov.