Episode 3: Human-Centered Design

How does ITS approach and configure online spaces where the public interacts with New York State agencies and make that experience better? 

Listen to the latest episode of the “ITS a Tech Podcast,” featuring Jesse Gardner, Director of User Research at ITS and Eric Steinborn, Design System Lead. Learn more about human-centered design and how it is helping New Yorkers access services in better and even more efficient ways. 

Thank you for listening to the IT’S a Tech Podcast. For more information about ITS, visit our website at its.ny.gov. Follow us on X, LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.

Transcript

IT'S a Tech Podcast, Episode 3_ Human-Centered Design

0:01
You're listening to the IT’S a Tech Podcast, an engaging conversation about game changing technology solutions being advanced by the state's Office of Information Technology Services.

0:11
Learn how we make IT happen for 53 state agencies and 20 million New Yorkers while helping government leaders deliver for New York.

0:22
Welcome to the IT'S a Tech podcast.

0:25
As part of the Governor's State of the State initiatives in 2024, customer experience was and still is a huge focus.

0:33
Specifically, the experience New Yorkers have when accessing state government resources.

0:38
Seems like a no brainer, right?

0:40
When people need something, it shouldn't be difficult or painful to get that something.

0:44
Especially not in a world where technology makes these services easier and more convenient to access than ever before in history.

0:52
The question, as always, is how?

0:55
How do we approach and configure these online spaces where the public interacts with New York State agencies and make that experience better, faster, more intuitive?

1:06
That's where the principle of human-centered design comes in.

1:10
Some of you may have heard this term but weren't sure exactly what this approach entails.

1:15
Today, thanks to our guests, we will learn more about how ITS is talking to the users themselves and applying what is learned to improve processes in order to help New Yorkers across the state.

1:27
Our guests today are Jesse Gardner, the director of user research at ITS and Eric Steinborn, design system lead.

1:35
Jesse and Eric are here today to discuss customer experience and human-centered design.

1:40
Jesse, Eric, welcome to the podcast.

1:42
Thanks for having us.

1:42
Thank you.

1:43
Glad to be here.

1:44
So Jesse, let's start with you.

1:46
Your background is fascinating and maybe not the path of a typical government employee.

1:51
Tell us more about how you came to your role at ITS.
I am actually coming up on my second year anniversary in the public sector, so I’m relatively new, especially compared to Eric.

2:02
So I actually started as a junior high teacher for a while, and then in the early 2000s started a web design company. That went pretty well.

2:12
That was, you know, found some success with that and ended up eventually getting into more management type roles, so engineering management and kind of developing systems in larger companies.

2:26
And I think it was like 2016, I actually did a personal project where I walked around Troy, NY and I interviewed people on the street and I just took pictures of them and asked them about their lives.

2:35
I love that.

2:36
Yeah.

2:37
And through that project, way back then, I had actually met Luke because Luke was fascinated in storytelling and everything and just met him and kind of stayed in touch.

2:45
And when I left the, the large media company I was working at, Luke actually reached out and what they were looking to do was kind of in alignment with my strength, storytelling and, and really talking with people and, and, you know, the engineering aspects.

3:00
And so I was really captured by the idea of spending my days helping improve the lives of real people instead of just, you know, helping shareholders in the bottom line, etcetera, etcetera.

3:11
And so helping people get access to government service was really inspiring to me.

3:15
And so that's what brought me here.

3:17
And then here you are.
Here I am.

3:19
Eric, same question.

3:20
What led you to ITS?
Great question.

3:23
I started back at the state in 2006 at the Division of Criminal Justice Services.

3:28
I worked on the Internet and intranet sites there, and I really liked web development and started working with responsive web design when that started first coming around and helping bring the state up to responsive web design back when, you know, mobile usage was down at 20% and now it's over 50%.

3:46
It's the, the mobile usage is just shot out of where anybody thought it was going to be.
Right.

3:52
So then I took a… I just got off of an 8-year stint over at the Attorney General's office.

3:59
I ran the web team over there.

4:00
We just shipped a brand new website back in 2002.

4:05
And yeah, I came back to ITS.

4:08
So I was part of the ITS original when ITS formed back, you know, 10 years ago or so.

4:15
And from there I, I came back and said, you know, I, I'd like to be part of ITS again.

4:22
And the, the design system was really what brought me back here.

4:26
And to, to be able to lead this team, to be able to help our engineers and designers across the state was really where, where I wanted to be.

4:35
Fantastic. We're so happy to have you.

4:36
Thank you.

4:37
So at the beginning of 2024, Governor Hochul made enhancing the customer experience of New Yorkers looking for government services a focus of her administration, she said,

4:48
and I quote, “Since transforming the customer service experience at the DMV as Erie County Clerk, I've been committed to making government work for New Yorkers.

4:58
By eliminating bureaucratic hurdles, simplifying processes, and utilizing new technology, we will vastly improve the way New Yorkers access services and benefits from state agencies.

5:09
I mean that that's it in a nutshell, right?

5:11
It's just music to your ears, I'm sure.

5:13
Yes, not only music to our ears, but I'll do you one better.

5:16
In the 2024 State of the State, there is a, a quote that I, I have it here, so I'll read it.

5:22
But it essentially called for the development of a centralized design system that will “encompass all recognizable and reusable components, including real functional code, documentation, user research methodology, and use case examples with the dedicated team to build, test and support the design system so that it can be used across the state.”

5:41
And that's really what ended up, you know, having us reach out and, and bring Eric over from the AG's office to head up our newly formed design system team last year.

5:51
Yeah, and we built that team.

5:53
We have 5 people on the team right now.

5:55
We have 2 front-end engineers, Emily and Robert, who are working on the code that powers the design system.

6:00
We have two UX engineers, Kristen and Leo, who are curating design patterns and designing the system.

6:06
And then lastly, our platform coordinator, Doug, has helped focus our communication and branding.

6:12
You know, and the best part is that the team is fully dedicated to the design system. We are fully, entirely focused on creating resources for the people that build New York State applications and websites.

6:23
So while, while the end users are New York State residents, the end users of the design system are going to be those engineers and those designers in New York State agencies who are, who are developing those sites and apps for people.
Right.

6:37
And when what we're doing is we're building these with resources that make it easy to build quickly and consistently so that it stays accessible, especially for those users with disabilities.

6:49
Right, absolutely.

6:50
So I know you and your amazing team are very proud of all of this work that you've done around the New York State design system.

6:58
Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about what that is?

7:01
Yeah.

7:02
And I think it's important to take a step back and talk about the experience that people have.

7:07
Sorry, the expectations that people have with a modern digital experience.

7:13
Your listeners are using services for media streaming and they're scrolling through social media and they're using technology to hail a ride or get groceries delivered to their house.

7:22
They they've come to expect these fast and seamless interactions from digital services that they use every day.

7:29
And we in New York, we need to meet their expectations for those rich and interactive experiences, 

7:34
Right. Yeah.

7:34
You can't ignore those experiences that people are having. It’s probably good to get a big picture view for just a moment.

7:42
So, you know, if you think about each of the New York State agencies, so they they have a mission that they're trying to fulfill.

7:48
They're trying to meet the specific needs of residents in various areas.

7:53
And then that mission is supported and enabled in some way by technology.

7:58
And so that's where you know, ITS, that's the T in  “ITS,” That's where it comes in.

8:02
And we're trying to support those agencies.

8:04
But sometimes what happens is it's easy to kind of lose sight.

8:08
It's easy to get really hung up on a list of functional requirements.

8:12
And it's important for the technology to actually be optimized for the people receiving the services so that their needs are actually met.

8:20
And that's really where I like to say that our human- centered design team comes into play.

8:25
You know, it's, we're a part of the digital transformation office inside of ITS. Our broader human-centered design team tackles those needs or really figures out those needs through user research.

8:37
We, we, we interview users. We run design thinking workshops with agency teams to really try to dig into what the, the, what the, the needs they're trying to serve and do those actually meet those needs.

8:49
And then we, you know, validate solutions by having people use those things that we propose and, and ultimately build and collect their feedback.

8:57
If I could summarize it this way, it's like when we talk to the people who actually use the services that we create, what sort of experiences do they have?
And how do we improve that user experience across hundreds of sites and applications?

9:12
I mean, this is a complicated problem and there are tons of solutions out there for it and there's tons of different teams working on different versions of a problem like a button.

9:22
Imagine creating a button. Uou have to create a button.

9:25
It's a non-trivial task to create a button on on a website.

9:28
And if you have 20 different teams working on 20 different buttons, you've now multiplied that effort 20 times.

9:36
And so, so data and legal are currently are working hard to make sure that users don't enter data multiple times.

9:42
And we have operations that those teams that are keeping our systems up and we, we need, we needed a solution at scale.

9:48
And one of the solutions to building out those applications and sites more efficiently is and consistently is a design system.
That's fantastic.

9:59
So how will this approach change the way agencies work and ultimately impact New Yorkers?

10:04
Are there any obstacles that are preventing New York State and similar government entities from making real customer experience gains?

To, to kind of further elaborate on what Eric was talking about, one of the first things we did when we started the team was conduct an audit of the front end.

10:21
That's really the, the in the browser experience that people have of various ny.gov sites and applications.

10:29
And it probably would not surprise you or anyone that the experience was fragmented.

10:33
It was just just different.

10:35
And there's no, no villain, no bad intentions here.

10:38
It's just, you know, everyone was solving similar problems, just in different ways because they're kind of operating in slightly different contexts in there.

10:46
And, and the button is a good example of this.

10:50
I we use that one because we put a slide together where I think, what was it 50 buttons or so from different ny.gov sites.

10:57
And you just it, it's a snapshot of this fragmented experience as people go from site to site and they just feel wildly different.

11:06
And so, you know, really that kind of leads into we should probably talk a little bit about what a design system is.

11:13
I'll put a little bit more structure around it and, and kind of how it addresses this issue.

11:17
So Eric, maybe you could share a little bit of like, what do we mean when you talk about design system?

11:22
Yeah, I mean, we can go into the dictionary definition of design system if we if we wanted to.

11:26
But I think what we're going to do is talk about the three pillars that we have for for the design system.

11:32
It really helps elaborate on what what we're what those different pieces are.

11:37
So the first piece is that we have a library of code components.

11:40
And that's where we talked about things like buttons, but we also have things like headers and form fields.

11:46
And that's all code that can be used to create the different parts of applications and sites that our users are going to interact with.

11:54
Then we have in it that is a curated library of user interface components, though we also include well researched design patterns.

12:02
They've, they've also been tested, they have accessibility standards baked in and not, not to mention that they, they also include New York State branding standards.

12:11
We have to meet branding standards no matter where we are, no matter what application or site that we're using.

12:16
And this, this has a bit baked in.

12:19
So it's a homogeneous experience for everyone.

12:22
Absolutely.

12:23
And so, so we have those code components, but we also have a matching library of design components.

12:29
Now these design components when when users can prototype applications and they can know that what they've designed is going to be feasible for engineers to build because there's code parity between the two things.

12:41
So when you're developing something and you're designing a, a form field, you can, a developer can come into that prototype that you've created and they can see the actual code that they need to use.

12:52
They can copy and paste that code in and now they have a working component.

12:55
It's really fascinating.

12:58
And then the last piece is a reference website.

13:00
So we have a reference website with resources and guidance that helps the teams build more efficiently and again, more consistently for those for those digital products that they put in.

13:10
And I shared it to those, those experiences, the, the modern digital experiences that Eric mentioned earlier, all of those things, they're, they're almost all powered by complex, well thought out design systems.

13:22
It's really an industry standard way to scale good design across multiple platforms.

13:27
And that's why we're really excited to bring it to New York State.

13:29
Fantastic.

13:30
So we talked a lot about the front-end experience.

13:32
So let's talk a bit about the back-end experience.

13:34
How is this going to help state agencies do their jobs better?

13:38
What should state employees expect from this whole process?

13:41
That's a great question.

13:43
Our design system is built to support developers and designers at many different steps in their application development life cycle.

13:51
So I'll give you three examples, but there there are more examples that are that are out there, I'm sure, as teams start to adopt the design system.

13:59
So let's say you have an existing framework.

14:01
Well, what you can do is you can go on to the reference website and you can follow our usability and accessibility guidance inside of our documentation so that you can create usable, accessible experiences with your existing framework.

14:16
A second way that you can do that is, let's say you're already in development and you've sent out your, your normal e-mail, because this happens every time that you're doing a development, you send out your e-mail and you say, “Hey, can you get me the brand assets?”

14:26
“What's the brand color?”

14:28
“What is the color that I need to use for this agency grouping?”

14:31
And so what we do is we, we've, we provide them with these things called design tokens, which is styles in variables that and a CSS framework that they can apply all the styles to their application.

14:43
They can just say, all right, this is the primary color.

14:46
And once you set the primary color, no matter what agency grouping you're associated with, you will be that your agency grouping color.

14:53
So environmental is green and Health and Human services is purple.

14:57
And those, those pieces there will be in place when you, when you're developing your system.

15:02
Fantastic.

15:03
Then the last piece is the piece that we're really excited about and that is you're building brand new.

15:08
You're you are you are prototyping using our prototyping libraries. You're using our code, writing, putting putting that down inside of your code and you're building out those front interface, front-end interfaces that match the designs that have been created.

15:22
Fantastic.

15:23
So from design to code pair development, our design system and dedicated design system team are are there to help adopt the design system and help you to adopt it.

15:35
Smooth process.
Very smooth.

15:37
Wonderful.

15:39
So what are some things New York State is doing today that we weren't doing, say, a year ago?

15:44
And how has that helped us make progress on this overall initiative?

15:49
Yeah.

15:49
So there's three things that really stick out to me.

15:52
The biggest change is that that we've created this dedicated design system team to support the design system.

15:58
So we're here to provide resources and support to designers and developers all across the state to help them create those modern digital experiences that we talked about.

16:07
Secondly, we've built a full accessibility team to help drive

16:11
accessibility forward and the two teams, the design system team and accessibility team, are working together to bring accessibility features to the design system.

16:19
And then last but not least is the focus on customer experience.

16:22
I mean, we have a new customer experience officer, Tanya Webster, who's helping bring human-centered design to the forefront of the New York State experience.

16:31
Correct, absolutely.

16:32
So since this is truly human-centered design, I want to drill down a bit on the work your team is doing when it comes to allowing the public to guide your work.

16:42
So can we talk a little bit about what you've heard from real New Yorkers?

16:47
So when I started, one of the very first things that I did was I set up a usability testing session.

16:55
We had a tax, a document uploader application that was going to be released soon.

17:01
And we wanted to, we developed some hypothesis about things that we thought might be able to be improved, but we wanted to put it in the hands of real people and let them try to use it.

17:10
So we set up a table in the concourse and gave people a water bottle when they came by and, and offered to sit down and, and use it.

17:18
And so we sat down with, with a number of people, I think like 9 or 10 people came in and, and sat down And we, we asked them if we could have permission to, to record their, their devices and just essentially watch them and take notes as they tried to, to use this.

17:34
And it was fascinating.

17:34
We learned so much.

17:35
I, I could do a, a whole other talk about this, but essentially one of the things that we learned was that, for example, we were trying to test out a QR code and people were a bit confused because there wasn't any guidance around the QR code.

17:50
And so it, it worked, but people didn't quite understand that, what they were supposed to do with that.

17:56
And so just simple guidance like, hey, include some directions underneath that so that it's clear to people that this is, you know, this is how you're going to use that.

18:05
And that's a very specific example, But you know, what that does is it helps give us a sense of the ways in which real-world scenarios actually contribute to the experience that people have with these applications.

18:19
And so just an example of this, you know, people were, were sitting there and they would scan it in, but sometimes their camera wouldn't work or sometimes the, the Internet was really slow.

18:30
And, and so that contributed to this.

18:31
And so seeing that helped us better inform that team.

18:36
But then the other thing that I should mention is that one of the teams on the human-centered design team is a team that that our design system team works closely with, and it's called the experience design team.

18:46
And they do a lot of kind of product development work.

18:48
They're, they're, you know, really high-priority projects.

18:53
They'll get brought in and they'll help do user research design sessions like I mentioned earlier.

18:57
And we work really closely with them.

18:59
And so that team does a lot of research and the, the research that they conduct with real people and the experiences that they have talking with the subject matter experts at those agencies will take those things and we learn from them, and we actually build that into the design system, as well.

19:15
And so that's this kind of integrated experience that we're trying to create there as well.

19:19
Brilliant, wonderful.

19:21
So give me an example of how I, as a New Yorker could need to access a service and how would the application of human-centered design help me do that?

19:31
So there are a lot of facets to human-centered design.

19:34
So the New York State design system is built with a focus on usability and accessibility.

19:40
Now, you might not have an accessible an accessibility issue now or disability, but many, most people will have a disability of some sort in their life, whether they were born with it or maybe they broke their arm falling off their mountain bike and only have one arm to do their work until they heal.

19:55
So we need to meet the users where they are.

19:58
Yeah, I'll give you a practical example going back to the usability testing when, when we were running it in the concourse.

20:04
So one of the things that we had asked people to do was, here's a sample birth certificate and try to upload this using the application.

20:13
And so the, the way that the application had been built was that the, the page it would get uploaded when you hit submit.

20:21
And so the page had to get, had to upload it before it would actually reload to the to the next form, form screen.

20:30
And so the practical experience that the users that we observed had was in a low bandwidth setting and the concourse has really not great bandwidth.

20:41
So when we were down there, that meant that the page took a long time to load. And when we were watching people, especially on older phones, like some of the ones that people had, it looked like the page was broken.

20:51
And so people would hit back and the submit again and they would go into that same process, and they would restart the upload.

20:57
And just the look on people's face when they were confused because we had asked them to talk through it and they were just confused and deflated.

21:04
And I think the thing that was most sobering to me was that people would even apologize thinking that they had done something wrong.

21:11
And again, no villains here.

21:13
It's just that, you know, a better solution would have been an uploader that doesn't require the page to reload, but show some sort of progress, progress indicator so that users know that something's happening.

21:24
It's like, don't worry, we're still uploading here.

21:26
And that's the kind of thing that takes a while to develop.

21:30
It's, it's a bit challenging to build that.

21:32
And so sometimes if a team is in a rush or if they don't have the time or the, the, the, you know, really budget to do that, they might just build it one way.

21:42
But now, if that's the kind of thing that we could build once, do it well, do it in an accessible way, build that as part of the design system, then all the teams could use that instead of rolling out their own.

21:52
So my, my point here is that it's a really technical solution, but it's informed by the all-too-real experience of real users.

21:59
So we're trying to marry those two things so that we can deliver the best experiences for New Yorkers that we can.

22:04
Absolutely.

22:04
Where, where people meet technology.

22:06
That's exactly right.

22:07
Yeah.

22:08
So thank you both so much.

22:10
Before we wrap up, I have one final question.

22:13
What are each of you most excited about this coming year?

22:15
And it does not have to be related to work.

22:18
Oh, great.

22:19
Well, my, I'm very excited for the great weather this coming up, spring and summertime so I can get back on my mountain bike again.

22:26
I could use some good weather, especially after the snow on Saturday.

22:29
That was not fun.

22:30
Surprising snow.

22:31
Yeah.

22:31
Surprise snow.

22:32
Welcome to Albany.

22:34
I, I'm really excited.

22:36
Thursday, May 15th is, is actually global Accessibility Awareness day, and Eric mentioned a central accessibility team that we're building out.

22:46
We're going to be, we're really excited about that.

22:49
There's a lot of interesting things to come.

22:51
We might just have to talk about that in future episode.

22:53
Absolutely.

22:54
That sounds fantastic.

22:56
Well, again, thank you both for joining us.

22:58
All of this is fascinating and it's so important, especially today when., you know, all of us use technology in some capacity pretty much every day.

23:06
So we cannot wait to see more from the New York State design team in the future.

23:10
Thank you again.

23:11
What a pleasure to be here with you.

23:12
Thank you.

23:13
Thanks so much.

23:15
Thank you for listening to IT’S a Tech Podcast.

23:18
For more information about ITS, visit our website at its.ny.gov.